The meaning of the word ‘body’ as a foundation for understanding 1 cor 15:35-44.

This is a study of the use of the word ‘body’, as used in the N.T., in the O.T., in common language and language of law to mean a collection of doctrine, teachings or beliefs.

These beliefs become assymilated in the soul and life experience, and become part of the substance and ‘body’ of the WHOLE person. The “body” of a persons beliefs and doctrines answers the questions; “What are you made of?, what do you stand for,? what are your beliefs, principles and convictions?

Since the beliefs, law, truths and way of Christ were ‘ingested’ and eaten by believers in Jesus as God in the first century, they became a plural, corporal continuation of the doctrine, “person” and thus “body” of God/Christ. In the first century setting, the plural “body” of individuals in Christ needed publicly judged as righteous, true and favored in contrast with the natural, Adamic man under the edenic or mosaic law.

In John 6, Jesus teaches that to ingest the spirit and life of his words (vs 63) is to eat his flesh (body) and drink his blood. I believe that the blood represents the life-will even unto death.

John 6:53-63/KJV v 53. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. v 55. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. v 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. v 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. v 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: (John 6:28,29); not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. v 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. v 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? v 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? v 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? v 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Then in Matt 26 During the symbolic breaking of bread, He reinforces the point that the bread (words & truths) is his body and the wine his blood.

*Mat 26:26-29/KJV* v 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. v 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; v 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. v 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.

Vs 29 can be shown to refer to and be fulfilled in Luk 24:30-31; v 30, And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. v 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Here it doesn’t say that Jesus actually ate the broken bread, (symbolizing his own body of doctrine) but departed that they (the apostles) might eat and ’embody’ his resurrected and verified words and truths. Jesus had taught them that the kingdom of God was (would be) within them, and (HE) was now supporting and inaugragating the kingdom indwelling by breaking the bread while physically departing from their presence. In the same timeframe, in John 20:22, Jesus had breathed on them saying recieve the (indwelling) holy Spirit. I believe the two actions by Jesus had the same, overlapping meaning, thus equating the GOOD, loving, living, indwelling truths and doctrines of God and Jesus as the holy Spirit. Jesus was eating and drinking the bread & wine with them in the fathers kingdom as the holy Spirit within them.

In the letter of first corinthians, Paul expands upon this teaching of Christ as bread, meat and “body”. Paul emphasizes that they are (should be) one body, belief and doctrine, but are many members, tools and expressions outflowing from the one good doctrine and set of beliefs. Notice that as far back as chapter 6, Paul mentions physical meats and the physical individual body in a perishing way, as he begins to allude to Jesus teaching in John 6. Paul then reminds the readers that the GOOD body and life of Christ indwelling is not to be compromised and adultered (fornication)) and can’t be purchased. (harlotry)

*[[Joh 6:27]] KJV* Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

*1Co 6:13/KJV* Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

*1Co 6:19/KJV* What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

*1Co 10:16/KJV* The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion (common union) of the body (doctrine, way & ttuths) of Christ?

*1Co 10:17/KJV* For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. (one way)

*1Co 11:24/KJV* And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

*1Co 12:12/KJV* For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

*1Co 12:13/KJV* For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (Intent)

*1Co 12:14/KJV* For the body is not one member, but many.

*1Co 12:18/KJV* But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

*1Co 12:20/KJV* But now are they many members, yet but one body.

*1Co 12:25/KJV* That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

*1Co 12:27/KJV* Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

*1Co 15:35/KJV* But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

*1Co 15:37/KJV* And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

*1Co 15:38/KJV* But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

*1Co 15:44/KJV* It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Then in a section of Isaiah which can be easily associated with the timeframe of the growth of the nation of Christ and thus 30-70 AD events, we have the prophecy that the believers would rise along with Christ while those of the disbelieving body of Moses would not.

*[[Isa 26:12-14/KJV]]* v 12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. v 13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee [Jesus] only will we make mention of thy name. v 14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish. *Isa 26:19/KJV* Thy (God/Jesus’) dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Though, there had been a private vindicative, approving and ressuccitating appearance after his resurrection, (Hosea 6:2) there would be a public return in the clouds, and the public resurrectiom & victorious change of the individuals of Jesus corporal body of Peace in 66-70 .

Paul has quoted Is 28:12 in 1 cor 14:21, confirming that these Isaiah passages have been in his mind as he writes the letter and support that they have first century application weather 30 AD or 70 AD or both.,

And in a passage of Is 59, with a timed fulfillment in @ 40-68 AD we see that the persecuted adherants to Christ doctrine, truths and way were considered as dead and awaiting deliverence.

*Isa 59:10 KJV* We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

I cor 15:35-41 as a continuation and extension of 12:4-14,20 & 27-31 explains that the resurrected individuals of the corporal body of Christ would retain their individuality at the time of the resurrection and victorious change.

Thus summarizing, Jesus and then Pauls use the word “body”, while acknowledging and noting the retainment of individual aspects, refers to the people who ingest and embidy his doctrine& truths and recieve his grace. The “resurrection of the body” refers to the resurrection and changing of this people group in contrast with the edenic or mosaic ‘body’ of law. This would occur coincidentally with, but not preceed those ‘firstfruits’ who had fallen asleep (died through natural or inflicted death) in Christ between 30-66 AD. We affirm a resurrection or continuation of the spirit and angel (body) of each one after death, which aspect Paul affirms in Acts 23:6-8 and talks of in 1 Thess 4:16,17, and 1 cor 15:33 &51,52.

After talking of a unified, yet individual body of Christs doctrine and truths, why would Paul change it in chapt 15 to refer to a future eternal reconstitution of the physical bones and body during an alleged restored edenic state?

To further confirm this view and meaning of the word “body”, we look to Jude’s use of it in his epistle.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

What is meant by the “body of Moses”?   Did the angel fight with Satan about moses’ physical bones? Consider these cross references to help your contemplation.

1. Dan 10:13;  But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

2. Dan 12:1; And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

3. Zec 3:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

4. 2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

5. Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought with Michael.

2Co 3:7-13; 7.  But if the ministration of death, [body & law of Moses] written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:  8.  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?  9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.  12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

John Gills commentary of Jude 1:9 recognizes that some understand this to mean the physical body of moses but then states his contrasting personal understanding;

but it is best of all to understand it of the law of Moses, which is sometimes called Moses himself, Joh 5:45; and so the body of Moses, or the body of his laws, the system of them; just as we call a system of laws, and of divinity, such an one’s body of laws, and such an one’s body of divinity: and this agrees with the language of the Jews, who say, of statutes, service, purification, that they are גופי התורה, “the bodies of the law” and so of Misnic treatises, as those which concern the offerings of turtle doves, and the purification of menstruous women, that they are גופי, “the bodies” of the traditions s, that is, the sum and substance of them: so the decalogue is said to be “the body of the Shema”, or “Hear, O Israel”, De 6:4, so Clemens of Alexandria says, that there are some who consider the body of the Scriptures, the words and names, as if they were, το σωμα του μωσεως, “the body of Moses”

Thus, the Angel Michael was not wrestling with the devil about Moses physical bones body, but I believe about the righteousness of the law and thus (like the garden law) the devils inability to accuse, torture and condemn humanity or the jews based on either garden or mosaic law , due to the new law, new creation, new words and new GOOD way of God and life being enacted by God in Christ. Paul touches on these things in 2 Cor 3 above and Eph 6 below.

*[[Eph 6:12/KJV]]* For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Furthermore, consider these among the several definitions of the word “body” in Websters dictionary.

2. Matter, as opposed to spirit.

3. A person; a human being; sometimes alone; more generally, with some or no; as, somebody; nobody.

5. A collective mass; a number of individuals or particulars united; as the body of mankind. Christians united or the Church is called the body, of which each Christian is a member, and Christ the head.

7. A corporation; a number of men, united by a common tie, by one form of government, or by occupation; as the legislative body; the body of the clergy; body corporate; body politic.

10. A pandect; a general collection; a code; a system; as a body of laws; a body of divinity.

The letter of Romans is yet another place to see the corporal and covanental use of the word ‘body’. In chapters 4-8 & 12, Paul often refers to the body in a corporate doctrinal or covanental sense such as *[[Rom 6:6/KJV]* Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin [covenant of death made with Adam] might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [the body of the edenic law or its enmities or effects.]

Most uses of the word body in this section refer to the corporal or covanental sense. Here is another example from Romans

*[[Rom 7:4/KJV]]* Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; [by the authority of his new words and the new law of faith, John 6:28,29; not his death] that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, [verified from heaven] that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Ephesians and Colossians also contain several corporal or covanental uses of the word body.

Thus the “body” of Moses was the temporary inferior law and way of Moses.

The “body”of Adamic humanity under just the edenic law of “sin and “death” (without faith towards the edenic promise of Gen 3:15) would have been referred to as the body of flesh, sin, works, inadequacy (striving), fear, & insecurity and “death”. The body of Moses was a ‘corporal’, public body of conditional law, flesh, insecurities, fear, etc. BOTH would have been and are in contrast with the “body”, spirit and life of Christ continuing through indwelling.

In John 3, Jesus affirmed to the Pharisees; Marvel not that ye must be born again ( born a new way of freedom through the spirit; intent and will, of God/Jesus law). That which is flesh (striving in and against edenic or Moses law) is flesh; that which is spirit (rest, freedom and life of faith in the Good way of Jesus as God) is “spirit” (of the GOOD supernatural intent, will and life of God).

From the ISBE definition of “BODY”:

#4. The Body and Sin: From all this it is apparent that the body in itself is not necessarily evil, a doctrine which is taught in Greek philosophy, (and indirectly in Ireneousian, fundamentalist, and most ‘christian’ theology; my addition), but nowhere in the Old Testament and New Testament. The rigid and harsh dualism met with in Plato is absent from Paul’s writings, and is utterly foreign to the whole of Scripture. Here we are distinctly taught, on the one hand, that the body is subordinated to the soul, but on the other, with equal clearness, that the human body has a dignity, originally conferred upon it by the Creator, who shaped it out of earth, and glorified it by the incarnation of Christ, the sinless One, though born of a woman.

The so called “christian” doctrine that continued procreational physical lifecycles and death is evidence that the body and life is still under ‘sin’ and thus subject to and expecting a yet future eternal physical resurrection to a alledged restored eternal edenic state is thus shown to be a false and erroneous doctrine in need of confession and cleansing. (I John 1:7-9) It is similar to the doctrine of Plato and the greek philosophers. In christiandom, it stems mostly from Ireaneous and other writers, not from Creator Jesus or his apostles.

The “body” and substance (beliefs and ways of the spirit & soul) of individuals of humanity were in temporary ignorance, insecurity and fear (death) under the realm and effect of Adamic (garden) and mosaic law. The victorious fulfilling of the coming of the seed promised to humanity through the woman AND his law (John 6:28,29, Rom 3:27-31; I John 3:21-24) ) of adoption, security, divinity and experiential empowerment of the life; cancels and destroys that fear, insecurity, “death” and enmity, and enables the willing seeker to be successful in glorifying God in ones life. (rom 3:23,24) Thats why the authority of the law of faith (John 6:28,29) is stressed in context with the ‘sin’ of coming short of the glory of God in Rom 3:23-31. It is the begining axiom to remedy the previous inability to glorify God.

Song “happy”

Thus, the first century public resurrection of the “dead” in Adam (and Moses) was partly the public approval of the adhearants of Christ, and public disapproval of the ways of moses or pagan babylon.

The “body” of truths and the authority of those truths as freeing and establishing law through faith, was resurrected (1 Cor 15:21) from having been judged as wrong, dead and ‘sin’ by the religious authorities (from both judaism and paganism) of its day.

The truths and “body” of Christ resurrected could need a similar resurrection from the religious “body” of the interpretations of Ireneous and from the oppression of insubordinate, disbekieving, dishinouring corporate “bodies” calling itself govornment.

For lately we have lived in a jungle.

Steve Miller Band; Jungle Love

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When and why God commited “suicide”.

Some christians carry anger towards those that call themselves jews because they killed Jesus.

It might be difficult for some jews to accept Christ as the annointed of God as that would require that they acknowledge that their expectations, leaders and indoctrination killed Jesus, their prophecied messiah and the image, seed and will of God/humanity to the world. It would require them to rethink and reconsider the manner in which the annointed was to continue forever. It would eventually require them to expatriate and revolute (repent) from their rabbis interpretations and authority, whos doctrines and teachings are at the heart of the current (post 70 AD) understandings of judaism, and who consider and teach it the highest sin (anathma) to read the N.T. or consider Christ as Messiah.

Some jews further oppose Christ as Messish due to the common Christian teaching that Christ died to take on the punishment of our sins, saying that one man or person cannot rightfully take on the liability for another man’s sins.  This is partly accurate, but lacks understanding of the person, and reasons behind the statement. It lacks understanding that as prophecied and logically and reasonably deduced, God himself died [and needed to die] to take upon himself the penaties and enmities which the law and ‘death’ had effected., thereby cancelling the law, its chastisements, enmities and power.

The word sin primarily means “missing the mark.” The garden law of sin and death was instituted by God when mankind was in his infancy and ignorance [Acts 17:30] about God, himself and about life while in the culture and presence of an adversary. If God created mankind GOOD and in his image, and placed him in a garden of peace and rest, but with a potential to become ‘not good'” didn’t God himself bear part of the liability and responsibility for GOOD man’s ability & freedom to “miss the mark” AND thus also the effects of “missing the mark”? If the original ‘mark” was the instruction to not eat of the tree of Good/Evil and yet an outside influence of a liar was permitted, didn’t God himself bare part of the responsibility for that environment and thus also bare the responsibility to remedy the environment and create a new law and new environment?

And this is what is represented in the prophets and by Paul.

*[[Isa 53:5]] KJV* But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised [Gen 3:15] for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him [upon his shoulders]; and with his stripes we are healed. [healed from the enmity, fear and things induced from the ‘death’ of the garden law].

Mans (the womans) foreknown and foreordained failure against the conditional law of peace and rest in the garden, and its judgements created fear, insecurity (death) and subsequent enmity between man and God, between the man and woman; between man and his inner man, and between man and his fellow man. Though the failure against the law was given a immediate future remedy, that also led to further enmity and jealousy unto SHEDDING OF BLOOD UPON THE EARTH as Cain in jealousy slew Abel after his (Abels) offering of faith and understanding in the future seed was favored over Cains offering and understanding of toil, & labor from the fields.

Christ/God himself, in partial responsibility, took upon himself the personal and later corporal effects and enmities of the garden law including those of post flood nimrodic, corporal ritualistic, enslaving religions culminating with and embodied in the mosaic covt..  Thus God/Christ atoned by his blood for the effects that even the good, remedial promise had caused up until the time of his incarnation; so that we might know the Good (grace, love & truth) and the evil ( law & fear) and choose the Good.

*[[Joh 1:29]] KJV* The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. by replacing the law of sin/death with the law of truth/life.

*[[Rev 13:8 ]]KJV* And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, [beast] whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

*[[Act 2:23]] KJV* Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Thus it was meet and neccessary (pleasing to God) for God himself to die a reciprocating death to atone for and bear the foreknown and foreordained enmities and effects which the law caused on the earth, until the coming of the son of man [seed of Eve] to establish the new, everlasting, good laws of truth, logic and the love of God. Jesus/God cancelled and replaced the law of sin/death with the law of faith and life in himself, nailing the old law to his tree with Him.

*[[Act 17:30]] KJV* And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Thus Jesus/God was not killed by the jews, but responsibly permitted his atoning self orchestrated and purposed death foreplanned from the foundation of the world. 

*[[Joh 10:18/KJVLite]]* No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

*[[Joh 14:28-31/KJV]]* v 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. v 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. v 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh,and hath nothing in me. v 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

*[[Act 2:23]] KJV* Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

*[[Rev 13:8/KJV]]* And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, (beast) whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In his coming, he eradicated the stipulative garden law, replacing the enmity (death), fear and insecurity with unconditional love, peace, grace, and truth through faith. We should live in the freedoms (and constraints) of the teachings, example and truths of the new Adam and his love.

*[[Rev 20:14/KJV]]* And death (enmity, hate, striving) and hell (conditional, fear inspired authoritative religions) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death (spiritual, soul and mind enmity of the inner man)

For those jews who might find it difficult to accept that Jesus was Messiah due to the fact that it would require that they acknowledge that they had killed the(ir) messiah, understanding how & why his being killed was required to be the atonement and light for all men may help them recieve Jesus as the creators loving, good incarnation. He (and the seed promised through Eve) was/is the symbolic intent of Abel’s experience, of Lamechs proclamation, of Noahs experience; of the characteristics of the seed being passed through Abraham/Sara’s experience[and the confirming physical lineage] in Gen 12, 15 & 17.

*[[Isa 53:5-12/KJV]]* v 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised [Gen 3:15] for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. v 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. v 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. v 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. v 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. v 10p Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. v 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. v 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Thus, how did Jesus’ soul make an offering for sin; become an intercessor for the transgressors. How did his dying, bear our iniquities?
By changing and cancelling the law of enmity, and taking on its punishment, the accuser of the bretheren is cast out while God and his beloved humanity continue and are changed.

The strength of ‘sin'” is the law and where there is no law, there is no sin or transgression. He called the law of sin/death bad, and established the law of faith (John 6:28,29 Rom 3:27-31) as GOOD, life and righteousness.

*[[Rom 4:15]] KJV* Because the law worketh wrath: [enmity] for where no law is, there is no transgression.

*[[1Co 15:55-56/KJV]]* v 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? v 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

To just say that “Jesus died for ‘my’ sin” can imply an intended continuation of both his dying and of “my sin.” It is weak and incomplete compared to understanding that the authority of missing the mark (sin) was the conditional law of death which induced enmity and fear. God/Jesus didn’t just ‘die for my “sin” ‘ but atoned for and rightfully accepted the enmity which his law had temporarily effected; killing that law, its accuser and”death” while replacing it with laws of goodness, truth, grace and Life, through faith. The law of life, love and truth displaced and superceded the law of death.

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Key verses historically misunderstood which, when corrected, support preterism .

1.  The words “times and seasons”.
In Acts 1 and 1 Thess 5 “times and seasons” is a phrase referring to the feasts and festivals comemmorating events of the 40 year time, from leaving egypt to crossing Jordan, to establish the temporary, anti-thetical nation of the mosaic covt. 

[Acts 1:7;] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know [experience] the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
*[1Th 5:1]* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

In lev 23 & numbers 28 & 29, the people are instructed that these feast and festival commemorations are to be observed in their times and seasons. 

*[[Lev 23:4]] KJV* These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

*[[Num 28:2]] KJV* Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, My offering, and my bread for my sacrifices made by fire, for a sweet savour unto me, shall ye observe to offer unto me in their due season.
Numbers 29:39 These things ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts,

Using these words in Acts 1 and 1 Thess 5:1, Jesus, (Acts 1) and the apostle (1 Thess 5:1) were affirming that the topics being discussed would occur during the next 40 yrs, fulfilling and replacing the mosaic covt feasts and festivals, (times and seasons) confirming and establishing the new, good nation of the new, everlasting covt.

That the “new” nation is to have ordinances contrary or antithetical to that of the mosaic covt is evident in Jer 31:32-33, Ez 20;25ff & Is 65:1,2. below. That the GOOD new covt peoples of God/Jesus indwelling is to be thought of as a nation with ordinances, statutes, principles, laws of truth, etc. is found in the verses of Isaiah followiing these.

*[[Jer 31:32-33/KJV]]* Not according to the covenant (mostly,the book of duet as declared in deut 5:1-3) that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: %v 33% But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my (new) law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

*[[Eze 20:25]] KJV* Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

*[[Isa 65:1-2/KJV]]* v 1. I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. v 2. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;

For they had not had the new law and circumcised heart through the Good, loving, atoning trancendance and incarnation of the creator yet. They were still seeking release from and were thus under felt condemnation of the garden law.

*[[Deu 5:23-29/KJV]]* v 23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders; v 24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth. v 25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die. v 26. For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? v 27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it. v 28 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken. v 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

These are some verses which speak of the new indwelling kingdom of God through Jesus as a nation.

*[[Isa 26:2/KJV]]* Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.
*[[Isa 26:15/KJV]]* Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.
*[[Isa 51:4/KJV]]* Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, (Jon 6:28,29; Rom 3:31; Matt 16:18-21; 1 John 3:21-23) and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
*[[Isa 55:5/KJV]]* Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
*[[Isa 60:22/KJV]]* A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
*[[Isa 66:8/KJVLite]]* Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

In Acts 1, the Angel states that the apostles would not know (this is a greek word that can mean “EXPERIENCE”) these times and seasons.  They WOULD all experience the new covt feast of Pentacost together when the spirit descended like fire and they recieved the ability of tongues.. All but John suffered martydom prior to 70 AD. It had been suggested in John 21:18-23 that John would live through the persecutions and martydoms, which would take the lives of Peter and the others, and WOULD experience (know) the times and seasons of at least the next 40 years.

[Acts 1:7;] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know [experience] the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

*[[Joh 21:18-23/KJV]]* v 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. v 19. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. v 20. Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? v 21. Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? v 22. Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. v 23. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

In 1 Thess 5:1,4;  Paul tells his first century readers that they were not in the dark concerning the times and seasons that the day would overtake them surprisingly.

*[[1Th 5:1]] KJV* But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
*[[1Th 5:4]] KJV* But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.  *[[1Th 5:5]] KJV* Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

See also

(Matt 24:36 & Mark 13:32) with zech 14:6-9.
 The words are; “OF”   that day, no man knoweth……. Jesus was not saying that no one would know the day (date) nor hour, but was saying that no man, nor angel, nor the son had seen or understood the culture and spiritual environment of the day of the  new heavens and earth of the full, complete effectually establishing of the new covt.

Tbe preposition “OF” declares added description about the event (day) that he’s been talking about, not a statement about the date.  I believe that Jesus is bringing zech 14:6-8 into the olivet discourses narrative about 70 AD.

*[[Mat 24:36]] KJV* But OF that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

*[[Zec 14:6-9/KJV]]* v 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: v 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. %v 8% And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. v 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

3.  2 Peter 3;  
2 Peter 1:16-21 defines that 2 Peter 3 is referring to the destruction of the mosaic covt  by fire, not the physical earth.

*[[2Pe 1:18-19/KJV]]* v 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. v 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

Vs 19 mentions a prophecy of the voice being heard from heaven.  This is a referral to deut 18:15-19 which prophecied the removal of the disbelieving part of the people at the time of the coming of the new prophet.

*[[Deu 18:15-19/KJV]]* v 15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; v 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. v 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. v 18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. v 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Peter is saying that he heard the voice from heaven at the transfiguration which was first heard at his baptism, thus fulfilling the prophecy. Peter had made mention of the prophecy of the ascociated judgement coming to the disbelieving of Judea in Acts 3:22-24.

2 Peter 3 is a continuation of the explanation of the then soon coming judgement upon judea using propetic language such as Deut 32:22 as a source text for 2 Peter 3:10,12.

*[[Deu 32:22]] KJV* For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

*[[2Pe 3:10]] KJV* But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

*[[2Pe 3:12]] KJV* Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

See also

4. The subject matter of Rev 15:3 demands that the theme and scope of the letter of Revelation applied to 1 century 66-70 AD judea. 

*[[Rev 15:3]] KJV* And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. 

The song of moses is deut 32 which prophecied the events of the end of the mosaic covt nation at the time of the establishing the new covt nation.

5.  Hebrews 9:28, 10:37 & 12:26,27.

Heb 9:28 is associated with Is 66:5 and refers to a first century prrservation and deliverance.

*[[Heb 9:28]] KJV* So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

*[[Isa 66:5]] KJV* Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

Heb 10:37 refers to Titus and the Romans as one who was to soon come.  It is a referral to dan 9:26.  Due to the prophecy in Deut 32:42, we can assurredly say that Jesus’ method of rendering vengeance on his enemies and protection to his sons & daughters of peace was through Titus and the other leaders of Rome.

*[[Heb 10:37]] KJV* For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

*[[Dan 9:26]] KJV* And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

*[[Deu 32:42]] KJV* I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

[nkjv reads; from (or through) the long-haired heads of the enemy]

Hebrews 12:26 & 27;
As confirmed from the previous context, the removal of things that are made and the shaking of the heavens and earth refers to the articles and foundations of mosaic covt temple worship as the things made with hands that were to be removed.

*[[Heb 12:26-27/KJV]]* v 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. v 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

In the previous context (and from the context of Haggai’s prophecy) the “things that are made” were discussed as articles of the (2nd) mosaic covt (Solomonic) temple rituals.

*[[Heb 9:2]] KJV* For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

*[[Heb 9:11/KJVLite]]* But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

*[[Heb 9:24/KJVLite]]* For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

6.John 14:3

*[[Joh 14:3]] KJV* And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

It’s often ascerted that this is a prooving text for the return of Jesus and sometimes of the rapture of the church.

But in this conversation of chs 14-17, Jesus was referring to his leaving by his death and his return to them after his resurrection and having recieved the kingdom from the father. (Dan 7:13,14) This was fulfilled in John 20:19-23.

Jesus had said that he would prepare a place; and return to them that where he is they would be also.   In the teachings of chs 14-17 Jesus is bringing the father & spirit of Himself (now approved and judicially given a kingdom and govt for/of humanity) to dwell in them on the earth, not the other way around. Heaven and the white throne judgement of Dan 7 comes to dwell on earth in the truths about life, its Divine origins and its Goodness as admisistered and delivered by the word (expression) of God.

7. Matt 5:17-19
*[[Mat 5:17-19/KJV]]* %v 17% Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. %v 18% For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. %v 19% Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Many people interpret this section to mean that the law or at least the ten commandments are to remain in effect until the passing of the phydical heavens and earth. They would thus also allow or even promote a God ordained continuation of a national mosaic covt Israel, though perhaps seperate from the ‘church. The article linked here below explains and discusses Matt 5.


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Christian-Preterist songs in mainstream Music

This is a collection of songs which I’ve come to understand in a preterist or christian context and expression. Some of them (space cowboy, won’t get fooled again) express more preterist thoughts and theology than others, and several of the songs can have several meanings and interpretations. This allowance for multiple interpretations is sometimes termed artistic anonominity. Thus an artist themself might not specify the intent and meaning of the song. But several are so overtly preterist and positively evangelical that its difficult to deny the meaning and intent.

Steve Miller Band
I want to make the world turn around.
Wintertime. (A contrasting positive theme of the summertime’ prophecy in the olivet discourse)
The Window. (Gather your [fig] leaves together: gather your shame, insecurity and fear together)
Living in the U.S.A.
Space Cowboy.
Jet Airliner
Jungle Love.
Cry, Cry, Cry.
Babys house.
Behind blue eyes.
Wide River.
Your Saving Grace. (Goodness of Heaven)
Rock Love

The Who;
Real Good looking Boy (associated with Rom 7).
Baba O’reilley.
Eminence Front.
Won’t get fooled again. (A song commemorating the new covenant and the apostolic leaving of judea in 66-70 AD.)
Love, Reign over me.

Don Mclean;
American Pie. (The ‘day the music died’ could be the rise of the dispensational, & zionist theology, and false “gospel”.  His ‘widowed bride’ are widowed in the sense that, according to their understanding, Jesus’ gospel was rejected and postponed and ‘died’ with him until his alledged return. 

Five for fighting;
100 years.

Jesus Jones;
Right here, right now.

Christina Perri;
1000 years.

The Doors;
Love me two times.

Rare Earth;
Woodstock; back to the garden.

For Pete’s sake.

Tazmin Archer
Sleeping Satellite.



The Zombies
Holy Moses

Into the light

Juke Box Hero (One guitar- Zech 14:9)

Feeling Good, as sung by Carly Rose Sonenclaire.

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Did Isaiah 7:8 prophecy Antichrist, Gog, (Simon Bar Kochbah) and 132-135 AD?

As some of you know, I believe  that the milleniums (its plural of 1000 yrs) of Rev 20 were the 4 measurements of 1000 prophecied in Ez 47. I believe they all culminated in @ 70 AD or 30-70 AD. (See the post titled “The plurality of 1000 years”)

The Gog/Magog war was to come a short season (Rev 20:3) after the millenium(s). But we aren’t told what a ‘short season’ is/was. Some preterist connect the event to occurrances in 70AD or, as I once had, of Masada in 73 AD. But the characters, and imagery of the description of Ez 38/39 didn’t fit with 70 or 73 AD, even if individual believers were to be considered unwalled villages as the ‘camp of the saints’ of Rev 20:9.

I had already believed that since Ez 34,36 & 37 had references to the new covt of eternal life in Christ (David; Ez 37:24,25) that “my people Israel” in 37:23,27, 38:14 & 17 was referring to the disciples and followers of Christ as king (Ez 37:22).

A hint was that it would come AFTER the scattered of Israel were brought back from the sword. (Ez 38:8) The sword, in the time context of the new covt, is a reference to such first century prophecies as Deut 32:42; Is. 65:12, 66:16 and thus 70 AD. Gog would be turned back from looting and plundering “my people Israel” while they were living in unwalled villages. It would be after the land had been cleared from ‘wild beasts’ (referring either to actual animal or to how the goals of unprincipled men can be likened to devouring wild beasts.) Israel and judah had been sown with the seed of men and seed of beast (jer 31:27) in preparation for the everlasting covt.

Thus, realizing that the time of the sword in Ez 38:8 was a reference to 70 AD, I began looking for an event a short season’ (Rev 20:3) beyond 70AD which involved a regathering of peoples (Ez 38:8). I had already been considering the Bar kochbah revolt as the “double honour” of Is 61:7 and elsewhere.

I had contemplated to myself that if I could find some way to verify a 65 yr time period prophecied from 70 AD to135 AD that it would help confirm a growing hypothesis that the battle of Gog/magog referred to the Bar Kochbah revolt in 132-135 AD. I scoured my memory for references to 65 yrs and came up empty. 40 Yr and 70 yr periods were frequent but I knew of no mention of a 65 year timeframe.

Around Christmas of 2013, I was reading over the Immanuel prophecy of Is 9 and the context of ch 7-9 to see the perspective of weather the Govt (Constitution) of God for humanity rested upon his (Immanuels) shoulders or if (as we’ve often been taught) the govt of man was oppressing Immanuel. I found that the former is represented by the prophecy and fulfilled by Christs teachings, laws of truths and freedoms.

But in reading this section I was quickened by the mention of 65 yrs from the time of the prophecy to the time of the end of Damascus in Isaiah 7:8.

I put it aside for several days and then read more in context and I believe this section is a prophecy about the Gog//magog conflict. Some brief research into the events and charcters involved in this conflict using Wikipedia, Jewish, Christian and secular sources further supported the hypothesis.

point 1:
A prophecy in Isaiah 10:14-19 and ch.14 about the Assyrian conquest has similar language found in deut 32:27 of what was prophecied about Romes conquest of Judea in 70 A.D, namely that they would say that their Gods had prevailed and were superior to Israels God.

2. The Assyrian captivity/conquest of Israel was thus, like the Babylonian captivity/conquest of Judah, a foreshadow of a roman invasion. I believe the Babylonian conquest of Judah (and the Medes subsequent conquest of Babylon Is 13) foretyped the Roman invasion of 66-70 Ad. The Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom and then the fall of the Assyrian empire foretyped 132-135 AD. After 70AD, jewish national sympathizers and intermarried descendants of the dispersed northern tribes (previously considered gentile or samaratain and ‘not the people of God” by judah) would be brought back into the land from dispersion along with some of the believers. (see Isaiah 66:18-21).

3. That name (maher-shalal-hash-baz) means loot and plunder, the same to some extent, of what is prophecied in Ez 38:10-14

4. The phrase “My people Israel” after the establishment of the laws of the new covt by Christ refers to the justified in their humanity through faith in Christ (the Good) of which jacob/Israel was a foretype. We note a contrasting differentiation between the phrases “my people Israel” and “thy people” as in Dan 9:24 the latter of which refers to people of mosaic national Israel while the former to people of faith in the new Covenant words and entity of Jesus, as the seed promised to humanity through Eve.

Thus Gog is the prince of the people who was coming to loot & plunder the christian or the humanitarian/divine way of life, peace, freedom & Good truth. This activity could just as, or more likely refer to Bar kochbah and the san hedrain as much as Hadrian and the romans. The idea of “loot and plunder” could have several meanings and means including looting through subjugation and taxation or through robbing and oppressing of truths. Jesus may have even contrasted himself against Gog (Maher shalal hash baz) in John 10:10 & 5:43. Thus Bar Kokhba would have attempted to “steal”” the truth, power, freedom and love of God through the true messiah to the world by claiming messiahship for himself.

From what I’ve gleaned in my readings Bar kochbah and the san hedrain renewed persecution, harrassment, oppression and even killing of the Christ believers. When the jews under the San hedrain announce Bar Kokhba as ” MESSIAH” and formed plans for military occupation, defiance, autonomy and revolt, the believers (Nazarenes, Ebonites, Essdnes, etc.) seperated from the common re-inhabitation and again (as in 70 AD) left the land.

5. In Is 9:9,10, it says that they would say in their pride, the bricks have fallen, but we will rebuild with hewn stone. This is exactly the mentality of the sanhedrain after 70 AD where a carefull analysis was made as to why the revolt of 70 AD had failed. An opinion and belief emerged that it was due to two brothers appealing to a roman official (General Pompey) to solve a dispute between them over a jewish political office. It was NOT determined that it was because the new prophet had come and the new covt established. (See Eli Ravage; Commissary to the Gentiles) To this day, parts of the judicial system maintain a perspective that an appeal to the court is an admission and subjection to their jurisdiction rather that to common law jurisdiction and common sense or divine law and divine sense. I believe this may be a continued fruit of that faulty evaluation of why the revolt of 70 AD failed.

6 Though the immediate subject in question in Is 7-9 is the Assyrians, Israel, Ephraim, Samaria & Damascus of Isaiahs time era; the scope of the prophecy includes reference to a time period future to Isaiah & Ahaz by the inclusion of the Immanuel prophecy. Thus, as babylon refers to jerusalem and Judah of 70 AD, Damascus coorelates to Jerusalem and Israel/Epraim etc of 132-135 AD. Some were taken as preists and Kings (some came to believe) from that group also as prophecied in Is 66:21.

7. For the 3rd time, if not more Jerusalem of a mosaic covt principled ideology was destroyed on the 9 th of Av.

8 IF, I say If, Cush, Tubal etc is meant to refer to the northern tribes repopulation of Judea and the Sanhedrain attempt and side of the revolt , then Bar Kochbah would be accurately represented as Gog; claimed prince of the reinhabitation. This could also be part of the implications of Johns saying in 1 John 2:18 that “You have heard” that the antichrist is coming. Ez 38:17

Not only did John mean that any spirit or teaching that denies that Jesus had come and comes continuously indwelling generations of those who believe on and recieve him and his words as truth; (i.e. Eat Him from john 6:32-63) and that many false prophets were already making claims of themselves; he also seems to allow a hearing or opinion that a coming of a singular anti-christ (Gog) was being discussed among them. Ez 38:17

Cush, Tubal, the land of Magog, etc. was, from some research I did, a reference to coastal areas of the seas where people dispersed to and settled after the flood, especially that of the east/northeast of the mediterreanean sea (magog).

9. In Is 8:8 Maher-shalal-hash-baz is mockingly called “O Immanuel” and in Ezek 39:1 the same mocking attitude of the greatness of “O Gog” is depicted. So logically Maher shalal hash baz and Gog would be the same individual and be a false proclaimant of being Immanuel and “Messiah”. And in fact the title of “Messiah” was given to Simon bar kochbah by the San hedrain. He was also alledged to be the scepter and star arising out of Jacob of Balaams prophecy of Numbers 24:17 which had also been referring to Christ.

There is no reference to ‘anti-christ’ in Dan 9 since the covt confirmed (established) for one week is the everlasting covt of Deut 30:6,11-14. It is established in living history by “Messiah” teachings & freeing love & truths and the indwelling & authority of those truths in his disciples from 27-33 AD and beyond. The everlasting covt prophecied in deut 30:6 & 11-14 was to come after the captivity in babylon and after calling to mind the curse of the law of moses as stated in Deut 30:1-5. Daniel, in his prayer in Dan 9, confessed the babylonian captivity as the curse of the law and reminded God of the prophecied everlasting covt of mercy. The angel brings Daniel news of a 483 yr time period interjected between vs 5 & 6 of Dan 9; between the return from captivity and the delivering of the new covt. (See the post titled “20 questions….

Messiah (Christ) and Immanuel are both names of the same person, thus Maher shalal hash baz (anti-Immanuel) was rightly referred to as ‘anti-christ’ in 1 John 2:18. Ez 38:17 indicates that the people of this time (post 70 AD) were to wonder who was the one mentioned by the prophets to Israel. Since I don’t believe “anti-christ” is mentioned or referred to in Dan 9 the primary, if not only place that I know of where a antithesis of Immanuel/Messiah is prophecied is Isaiah 8:1,3,8.

10. This would also satisfy the prophecy of the double honor (Is 61:7 and others) and test and reward (Is 66:22) the second generation with keeping the constitution of Peace and love for all humanity (non religious, non-racial faith in the visitation and authority of the life-maker).

To clarify the foretype; Just as Medes conquest of Babylon (Isaiah 13) was a foretype of the romans conquest/invasion of Judea (called babylon after the new covt of Christ) in 70 AD; so also the fall of the Assyrian empire (another babylon) along with Samaria, Ephraim, (tribes of Israel) was a foretype of a second conquest of a reestablishment attempt of Israel/Jerusalem in 132-135 after Immanuel and the Good way of life and peace is established.

The conquest and judgement in favor of the followers, freed and lovers of Christ is again accomplished through Rome but there is a reciprocal retribution against Rome (also Assyrian/babylonian/pagan in nature) since they lost similar numbers in the 132/135 conflict.

As was prophecied in Ez 38:21; every mans sword was against his brother.

Seldom if ever is an event covered by a single prophecy. Passages that I believe referred to the bar kochbah revolt in 132-135 or to the time between 70 Ad & 135 are as follows.

Parts of Isaiah 7, 8, 9 &10;
Isaiah 11:11-16
(Possibly Is 40:2)
Is 61:7
Is 66:18-21
(Possibly Jer 17:18 with context)
Ezek 38 & 39
Zech 9:12
Zech 14:8-24
The little scroll of Rev 10:7-11 and thus the message of the 7th angel and 7 thunders when time (waiting for prophecy) should be no more or as John put it in 1 John 2:18, the last hour.
Rev 18:6
Rev 20:3
(Possibly others)
John 5:43
John 10:10
Eph 2:2,3
John 12:31
John 14:30
John 16:11

I along with other prrterist believe that the rev was written before and primarily applied to 66-70 AD. Rev 10:11 prophecied that John was to prophecy again. I believe that Johns epistles were written after 70 AD and that the ‘last hour’ (1 John 2:18) was thus referring to the time of the little scroll. and the little season of Rev 20:3. Thus the mention that they had heard that ‘anti-christ’ was coming in 1 john 2:18 would have been a reference to Gog, Maher-shalal-hash-baz (or anti-Immanuel”) of Is 8:1,3,8, who turned out to be Simon Bar Kochbah.

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Some foundational keys to understanding the Revelation

1.  Understand that it was written @65-68 AD, not 95 AD.  In book V, chapter 30 of Ireneouses “Against Heresies”, the first sentence of the first paragraph actually supports a early date of authorship by contrasting ‘ancient’ copies with more recent sightings of John (alledgedly the vision) later in the end of the third paragraph. And the first sentence of the fourth paragraph supports that the last sentence of the third paragraph referred to when JOHN was seen, not when the vision was seen.  This perspective is further supported by the topic of discussion in the surrounding context.

2.  Understand that it was addressed to a private, subjective audience of individuals in the first century churches of asia minor, all of whom were a short distance from Patmos.

3.  Understand that many (most?) of these believing adherants to Christ were of Jewish/Israeli heritage. Or they were gentile-greek believers. Both would have known or come to understand the culture, history, literature and prophecies of, to and against the nation of Moses.

4.  Understand that the book contained a representation and culmination of prophecies and events made and expressed through the time of that temporary nation of moses which were to be fulfilled and exacted during the time of the coming and revealing of Messiah.  He was the seed promised to humanity from Eden and through Israel, thus ending the law of sin/death (Rom 8:2) of the first heavens of Eden and also ending the heavens & earth of the mosaic covt law. (Examples: Compare Deut 32 & Rev 15:3; Joel 1 & 2 with Rev 9:1-11; 1 Kings 19:18-40 and Isaiah 66:20 with Rev 13:13 & 20:9; Ezek 9:4 with Rev 7:2,3 & 9:4)

5.  Combining these points, it is logically and reasonably deduced that the events depicted in the letter were/are to be understood from the subjective mindset, understanding and perspective of the original first century readers, and that they were to be mostly fulfilled imminently during the time and experience of the original addressees.

Internal data, topics and content further substantiate these evaluations, perspectives and deductions. Rev 15:3’s reference to the song of Moses (Deut 32) and deut 32 having a first century 50-70AD fulfillment and application is just one proving internal topic.

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The faulty foundations of the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration and its effects on hermeneutics and interpretation.

2Tim 3:16; 1Peter 1:10-12, 2 Peter 1:20,21 & 2 Peter 3:16 are commonly used to support or create a statement called the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration. This doctrine encourages the epistles to be interpreted and read as “God Breathed”, “God dictated” prophetic utterances rather than explanatory epistles. In this brief study, each verse will be discussed followed by exposing the faulty reasonings and logic behind this perspective of “inspiration” as used in this doctrine.

(1) 2 Tim 3:16.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Tim 3:14,15 state that Timothy had read the scriptures from childhood. Thus, 2 Tim 3:16 can only be speaking of the OT graphe (scriptures) as being “God -breathed”, not to these letters he and the other apostles were writing to the churches..

2 Timothy: 3:14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Timothy could NOT have had the epistles, the Acts, nor likely all gospel accounts (if any) to read as a child. Paul was still writing epistles (such as this one to Timothy). Thus “all scripture” could not have been intended to include the NT writings though obviously Jesus words and instructions are “GOD BREATHED”. (Rom 10:6-8; Heb 1:1-4)

(2) 1 Peter: 1:10-12.

Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

In 1 Pet 1:10-12 Paul refers to the same OT prophecies as scripture, not to the epistles which he himself was still writing. Proponents and advocates of ‘verbal, plenary inspiration’ tend to read the ‘us’ and ‘you’ in vs 12 as a 21st century people of a church age upon whom they believe prophecies are being or will be fulfilled. In equating and classing the epistles as prophetic writings they include the apostles among the prophets of verse 10 and tend to read the words as if they are written to whatever end time generation happens to read them. But the time of the sufferings of Christ and the glory to follow refers to the time and events of the first century and subsequent generations; not to a single future generation following in a time period distant to them. Peter mentioned this earlier in his speech in Acts 3 saying in vs 24 that all the prophets from Samuel onwards had spoken of these (first century) days.

(3) 2 Peter 1:20,21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 PET 1:20,21 by itself can appear to say that all scripture is prophetic, by the words “no prophecy of scripture” if the individual has a previous disposition and indoctrination to refer to the epistles as “scriptures”. But 2 Peter 1:16-19 is referring primarily and specifically to the prophecy of deut 18:16-18 as being fulfilled by the voice from heaven at Jesus baptism and made more sure ( 2 Pet 1:19) when they themselves (3 of them including Peter) heard the voice from heaven again at his transfiguration. Thus again, 2 Peter 1 is referring specifically to prophecies in the OT writings.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Deuteronomy: 18.15. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16. According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Mark: 9.2. And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 7. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

2 Peter 1:16-21’s reference to deut 18:15-19 [esp vs 19] is contextual support and precedence that the heavens and earth of 2 Peter 3:7,10,12 were referring to mosaic covt principles [mountains], foundations, elements and ways and to the revealing of new covt elements & statutes in vs 13.

(4) 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Perhaps most importantly; In 2 peter 3:16, proponents of VPI (Verbal, Plenary Inspiration) claim that by using the word “other” to refer to the writings in the Old testamemt, that Peters intent is to equate Pauls epistles as scriptures and then applying the other statements (above) regarding the prophetic Old testament writings declare the epistles to be equally prophetic, “God breathed” and God dictated. But in context, Peters intent is NOT to equate the epistles as “scripture” and thus prophetic in the same way that OT prophecies were prophetic. His intent is to equate the manner in which some untaught and unstable men twisted Pauls letters, especially concerning the judgement about to occur, like they did (twisted) also the OT scriptures. Youngs literal translation uses the word “Writings” for scriptures (graphe) and capitalizes it for emphasis.

Read again in the KJV with the proper focus on the unlearned men wresting both Pauls letters as they did other writings.

2 Peter: 3.16 KJV . As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also [in the same manner they also wrest] the other scriptures, [writings] unto their own destruction.

This doctrine and perspective of equating the epistles as “scripture” (graphe) wrongly authorizes them to be taken out of the literary genre of epistle to first century audiences and into the realm of ” GOD BREATHED” “scripture” and thus further falsely declaring a futurist prophetic intent rather than a first century explanatory message. In 2 cor 1:24 Paul himself declares his letter to not be instruments of lordship but of helps. And in 2 cor 3:5,6 he affirms that they are not the source of doctrine or life, but explainers and helpers of Christ. And he expresses that their service is to the spirit (intent) of the new covt, not to the literal “letter” written as if in stone. (2 Cor 3:2,3)

Section 2; A summary of the faulty reasoning and logic behind the faulty foundation;

The order of logic to the statement of the doctrine of “verbal, plenary inspiration” is as follows.

First using 2 peter 3:16 they claim that Peter is equating Pauls epistles on par with the “other” or “rest of” the scriptures.

The word “scriptures” can simply mean writings or it can specifically refer to the prophetic sacred writings of the OT. In context, Peters intent is NOT to equate and establish the epistles as new “sacred writings” but to equate the tendency of these untaught, insecure and likely unredeemed men’s manner of twisting and misinterpreting the OT writings with their mishandling of Pauls letters.

Then, after equating the epistles with the OT writings, they, using 2 Tim 3:16 apply the proclamation of God Breathed “SCRIPTURE” or writings to the epistles. But its obvious that Paul can’t and doesn’t have his epistles or even gospels in mind because he says that Timothy had read the sacred scripture which were able to make him wize about and unto salvation from a child. (see vs 14 and 15). And Timothy would have only had the OT writings and the oral stories of Jesus as a child. Paul was obviously NOT referring to his epistles, which he had just sent to Timothy, as a Inspired Scripture which Timothy would have read from childhood; would he?

BUT, then the advocates of this perspective of calling the epistles GOD BREATHED scriptures, and appealing to 1 Peter 1:10-12 & 2 Peter 1:20,21 as their authority, declare that the forward looking statements and explanations of the apostles were not actually written for their first century readers but to “US”, a people some 2000 years into the future for some (mistaken) “end time” audience.

In trying to source the root differences between the futurist understanding and hermeneutic and the preterist, I find this doctrine of ‘verbal, pleanary inspiration” with inspiration meaning”God Breathed” as explained of the prophets in 1 Pet 1:10-12 is one such difference. I find the support and claimed scriptural foundation for these perspectives and statements of verbal, plenary “INSPIRATION” (God breathed) to be faulty.


We (I) do affirm that the Gospels, Epistles, Acts & Revelation were providentially and divinely appointed to be written and recorded and also providentially preserved for even our observation and understanding.

We (I) further agree that the apostles and writers were “illumined” for their tasks of affirming the gospel, its application and effects to especially their first century audience.

But the epistles were not intended to be the source of that Gospel (2 cor 3:3-6) nor were the forward looking statements intended to be distantly prophetic to a future people but were rather fully cognated (understood) encouragements, explanations and guidance to their first century peoples.

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