Christian-Preterist songs in mainstream Music

This is a collection of songs which I’ve come to understand in a preterist or christian context and expression. Some of them (space cowboy, won’t get fooled again) express more preterist thoughts than others, and several of the songs can have several meanings and interpretations. This possibility for multiple interpretations is often permitted through what is termed artistic anonominity of the artist. Thus an artist themselves might not specify the intent and meaning of the song. But several are so overtly preterist and positively evangelical that its difficult to deny the meaning and intent.

Steve Miller Band
I want to make the world turn around.
Wintertime. (A contrasting positive theme of the summertime’ prophecy in the olivet discourse)
The Window.
Living in the U.S.A.
Space Cowboy.
Jet Airliner
Jungle Love.
Cry, Cry, Cry.
Babys house.
Behind blue eyes.
Wide River.
Your Saving Grace.

The Who;
Real Good looking Boy (associated with Rom 7).
Baba O’reilley.
Eminence Front.
Won’t get fooled again. (A song commemorating the new covenant and the apostolic leaving of judea in 66-70 AD.)
Love, Reign over me.

Don Mclean;
American Pie. (The ‘day the music died’ is the rise of the dispensational, zionist and end times theology and false “gospel”.  His ‘widowed bride’ is the deadening effects that dispensational theology has on its adherants.  They are widowed in the sense that Jesus’ message of the kingdom ‘died’ with him until his alledged return.  By contrast, the preterist and “GOOD”, ‘happy’  news focuses on the GOOD incarnation,  transcendance and truths of the  extranatural kingdom of Jesus’ continual indwelling.

Five for fighting;
100 years.

Jesus Jones;
Right here, right now.

Christina Ricci;
1000 years.

The Doors;
Love me two times.

Rare Earth;
Woodstock; back to the garden.

Monkees;
For Pete’s sake.

Tazmin Archer
Sleeping Satellite.

Ac/Dc
TNT

Creed
Higher

The Zombies
Holy Moses

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Did Isaiah 7:8 prophecy Antichrist, Gog, (Simon Bar Kochbah) and 132-135 AD?

As some of you know, I believe  that the milleniums (its plural of 1000 yrs) of Rev 20 were the 4 measurements of 1000 prophecied in Ez 47. I believe they all culminated in @ 70 AD or 30-70 AD. (See the post titled “The plurality of 1000 years”.)

The Gog/Magog war was to come a short season (Rev 20:3) after the millenium(s). But we aren’t told what a ‘short season’ is/was. Some preterist connect the event to occurrances in 70AD or, as I once had, of Masada in 73 AD. But the characters, and imagery of the description of Ez 38/39 didn’t fit with 70 or 73 AD, even if individual believers were to be considered unwalled villages as the ‘camp of the saints’ of Rev 20:9.

I had already believed that since Ez 34,36 & 37 had references to the new covt of eternal life in Christ (David; Ez 37:24,25) that “my people Israel” in 37:23,27, 38:14 & 17 was referring to the disciples and followers of Christ as king (Ez 37:22).

A hint was that it would come AFTER the scattered of Israel were brought back from the sword. (Ez 38:8) The sword is a reference to Deut 32:42 & 70 AD. Gog would be turned back from looting and plundering “my people Israel” while they were living in unwalled villages. It would be after the land had been cleared from ‘wild beasts’ (referring either to actual animal or to how the goals of unprincipled men can be likened to devouring wild beasts.) Israel and judah had been sown with the seed of men and seed of beast (jer 31:27). Thus, realizing that the time of the sword in Ez 38:8 was a reference to 70 AD, I began looking for an event a short season’ (Rev 20:3) beyond 70AD which involved a regathering of peoples (Ez 38:8). I had already been considering the Bar kochbah revolt as the “double honour” of Is 61:7 and elsewhere.

I had contemplated to myself that if I could find some way to verify a 65 yr time period prophecied from 70 AD to135 AD that it would help confirm a growing hypothesis that the battle of Gog/magog referred to the Bar Kochbah revolt in 132-135 AD. I scoured my memory for references to 65 yrs and came up empty. 40 Yr and 70 yr periods were frequent but I knew of no mention of 65 yrs but imagined I would find several association to persons ages.

Around Christmas of 2013, I was reading over the Immanuel prophecy of Is 9 and the context of ch 7-9 to see the perspective of weather the Govt (Constitution) of God for humanity rested upon his (Immanuels) shoulders or if (as we’ve often been taught) the govt of man was oppressing Immanuel. I found that the former is represented by the prophecy and fulfilled by Christs teachings, laws of truths and freedoms.

But in reading this section I was quickened by the mention of 65 yrs from the time of the prophecy to the time of the end of Damascus in Isaiah 7:8.

I put it aside for a few days and then read more in context and I believe this section is a prophecy about the Gog//magog conflict. Some brief research into the events and charcters involved in this conflict using Wikipedia, Jewish, Christian and secular sources further supported the hypothesis.

point 1:
A prophecy in Isaiah 10:14-19 and ch.14 about the Assyrian conquest has similar language found in deut 32:27 of what was prophecied about Romes conquest of Judea in 70 A.D, namely that they would say that their Gods had prevailed and were superior to Israels God.

2. The Assyrian captivity/conquest of Israel was thus like the Babylonian captivity/conquest of Judah a foreshadow of a roman invasion. I believe the Babylonian conquest of Judah (and the Medes subsequent conquest of Babylon Is 13) foretyped the Roman invasion of 70 Ad. The Assyrian conquest of the northern kingdom and then the fall of the Assyrian empire foretyped 132-135 AD. After 70AD, jewish national sympathizers and intermarried descendants of the dispersed northern tribes (previously considered gentile or samaratain and ‘not the people of God” by judah) would be brought back into the land from dispersion along with some of the believers. (see Isaiah 66:18-21).

3. That name (maher-shalal-hash-baz) means loot and plunder, same to some extent of what is prophecied in Ez 38:10-14

4. The phrase “My people Israel” after the establishment of the laws of the new covt by Christ refers to the justified in their humanity through faith in Christ(the Good) of which jacob/Israel was a foretype. We note a contrasting differentiation between the phrases “my people Israel” and “thy people” as in Dan 9:24 the latter of which refers to people of mosaic national Israel while the former to people of faith in the new Covenanr words of Jesus, as the seed promised to humanity through Eve.

Thus Gog is the prince of the people who was coming to loot & plunder the christian or the humanitarian/divine way of life, peace, freedom & Goodness. This activity could just as, or more likely refer to Bar kochbah and the san hedrain as much as Hadrian and the romans. The idea of “loot and plunder” could have several meanings and means including looting through subjugation and taxation or through robbing and oppressing of truths. Jesus may have even contrasted himself against Gog (Maher shalal hash baz) in John 10:10.

From what I’ve gleaned in my readings Bar kochbah and the san hedrain renewed persecution, harrassment, oppression and even killing of the Christ believers. When the jews under the San hedrain began forming plans for military occupation, defiance, autonomy and revolt, the believers seperated from the common re-inhabitation and again (as in 70 AD) left the land.

5. In Is 9:9,10, it says that they would say in their pride, the bricks have fallen, but we will rebuild with hewn stone. This is exactly the mentality of the sanhedrain after 70 AD where a carefull analysis was made as to why the revolt of 70 AD had failed. An opinion and belief emerged that it was due to two brothers appealing to a roman official (General Pompey) to solve a dispute between them over a jewish political office. It was NOT determined that it was because the new prophet had come and the new covt established. (See Eli Ravage; Commissary to the Gentiles) To this day, parts of the judicial system maintain a perspective that an appeal to the court is an admission and subjection to their jurisdiction rather that to common law jurisdiction and common sense or divine law and divine sense. I believe this may be a continued fruit of that faulty evaluation of why the revolt of 70 AD failed.

6 Though the immediate subject in question in Is 7-9 is the Assyrians, Israel, Ephraim, Samaria & Damascus of Isaiahs time era; the scope of the prophecy includes reference to a time period future to Isaiah & Ahaz by the inclusion of the Immanuel prophecy. Thus, as babylon refers to jerusalem and Judah of 70 AD, Damascus coorelates to Jerusalem and Israel/Epraim etc of 132-135 AD. Some were taken as preists and Kings (some came to believe) from that group also as prophecied in Is 66:21.

7. For the 3rd time, if not more Jerusalem of a mosaic covt principled ideology was destroyed on the 9 th of Av.

8 IF, I say If Cush, Tubal etc is meant to refer to the Sanhedrain attempt and side of the revolt , then Bar Kochbah would be accurately represented as Gog; claimed prince of the reinhabitation. This could also be part of the implications of Johns saying in 1 John 2:18 that “You have heard” that the antichrist is coming.

Not only did John mean that any spirit or teaching that denies that Jesus had come and comes continuously indwelling generations of those who believe on and recieve him and his words as truth; (i.e. Eat Him from john 6:32-63) and that many false prophets were already making claims of themselves; he also seems to allow a hearing or opinion that a coming of a singular anti-christ (Gog) was being discussed among them.

Cush, Tubal, the land of Magog, etc. was, from some research I did, a reference to coastal areas of the seas where people dispersed to and settled after the flood, especially that of the east/northeast of the mediterreanean sea (magog).

9. In Is 8:8 Maher-shalal-hash-baz is mockingly called “O Immanuel” and in Ezek 39:1 the same mocking attitude of the greatness of “O Gog” is depicted. So logically Maher shalal hash baz and Gog would be the same individual and be a false proclaimant of being Immanuel and “Messiah”. And in fact the title of “Messiah” was given to Simon bar kochbah by the San hedrain. He was also alledged to be the scepter and star arising out of Jacob of Balaams prophecy of Numbers 24:17 which had also been referring to Christ.

There is no reference to ‘anti-christ’ in Dan 9 since the covt confirmed (established) for one week is the everlasting covt of Deut 30:6,11-14 established in physical history by “Messiah” teachings & freeing love and truths continuously indwelling his disciples from 27-33 AD and beyond. (See the post titled “20 questions….”) But Messiah (Christ) and Immanuel are both names of the same Person, thus Maher shalal hash baz (anti-Immanuel) was rightly referred to as ‘anti-christ’ in 1 John 2:18. Ez 38:17 indicates that the people of this time (post 70 AD) were to wonder who was the one mentioned by the prophets to Israel. Since I don’t believe “anti-christ” is mentioned or referred to in Dan 9 the primary, if not only place that I know of where a antithesis of Immanuel/Messiah is prophecied is Isaiah 8:1,3,8.

10. This would also satisfy the prophecy of the double honor (Is 61:7 and others) and test and reward (Is 66:22) the second generation with keeping the constitution of Peace and love for all humanity (non religious, non-racial faith in the visitation and authority of the life-maker).

To clarify the foretype; Just as Medes conquest of Babylon (Isaiah 13) was a foretype of the romans conquest/invasion of Judea (called babylon after the new covt of Christ) in 70 AD; so also the fall of the Assyrian empire (another babylon) along with Samaria, Ephraim, (tribes of Israel) was a foretype of a second conquest of a reestablishment attempt of Israel/Jerusalem in 132-135 after Immanuel and the Good way of life and peace is established.

The conquest and judgement in favor of the followers of Christ is again accomplished through Rome but there is a reciprocal retribution against Rome (also Assyrian/babylonian/pagan in nature) since they lost similar numbers in the 132/135 conflict.

As was prophecied in Ez 38:21; every mans sword was against his brother.

Seldom if ever is an event covered by a single prophecy. Passages that I believe referred to the bar kochbah revolt in 132-135 or to the time between 70 Ad & 135 are as follows.

Parts of Isaiah 7, 8, 9 &10;
Isaiah 11:11-16
(Possibly Is 40:2)
Is 61:7
Is 66:18-21
(Possibly Jer 17:18 with context)
Ezek 38 & 39
Zech 9:12
Zech 14:8-24
The little scroll of Rev 10:7-11 and thus the message of the 7th angel and 7 thunders when time (waiting for prophecy) should be no more or as John put it in 1 John 2:18, the last hour.
Rev 18:6
Rev 20:3
(Possibly others)
John 5:43
John 10:10

In keeping with Rev 10:11’s prophecy that John was to prophecy again; I believe that Johns epistles were written after 70 AD and that the ‘last hour’ (1 John 2:18) was thus referring to the time of the little scroll. and the little season of Rev 20:3. Thus the mention that they had heard that ‘anti-christ’ was coming in 1 john 2:18 would have been a reference to Gog, Maher-shalal-hash-baz (or anti-Immanuel”) of Is 8:1,3,8, who turned out to be Simon Bar Kochbah.

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Some foundational keys to understanding the Revelation

1.  Understand that it was written @65-68 AD, not 95 AD.  In book V, chapter 30 of Ireneouses “Against Heresies”, the first sentence of the first paragraph actually supports a early date of authorship by contrasting ‘ancient’ copies with more recent sightings of John (alledgedly the vision) later in the end of the third paragraph. And the first sentence of the fourth paragraph supports that the last sentence of the third paragraph referred to when JOHN was seen, not when the vision was seen.  This perspective is further supported by the topic of discussion in the surrounding context.

2.  Understand that it was addressed to a private, subjective audience of individuals in the first century churches of asia minor, all of whom were a short distance from Patmos.

3.  Understand that many (most?) of these believing adherants to Christ were of Jewish/Israeli heritage. Or they were gentile-greek believers. Both would have known or come to understand the culture, history, literature and prophecies of, to and against the nation of Moses.

4.  Understand that the book contained a representation and culmination of prophecies and events made and expressed through the time of that temporary nation of moses which were to be fulfilled and exacted during the time of the coming and revealing of Messiah.  He was the seed promised to humanity from Eden and through Israel, thus ending the law of sin/death (Rom 8:2) of the first heavens of Eden and also ending the heavens & earth of the mosaic covt law. (Examples: Compare Deut 32 & Rev 15:3; Joel 1 & 2 with Rev 9:1-11; 1 Kings 19:18-40 and Isaiah 66:20 with Rev 13:13 & 20:9; Ezek 9:4 with Rev 7:2,3 & 9:4)

5.  Combining these points, it is logically and reasonably deduced that the events depicted in the letter were/are to be understood from the subjective mindset, understanding and perspective of the original first century readers, and that they were to be mostly fulfilled imminently during the time and experience of the original addressees.

Internal data, topics and content further substantiate these evaluations, perspectives and deductions. Rev 15:3’s reference to the song of Moses (Deut 32) and deut 32 having a first century 50-70AD fulfillment and application is just one proving internal topic.

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The faulty foundations of the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration and its effects on hermeneutics and interpretation.

2Tim 3:16; 1Peter 1:10-12, 2 Peter 1:20,21 & 2 Peter 3:16 are commonly used to support or create a statement called the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration. This doctrine encourages the epistles to be interpreted and read as “God Breathed”, “God dictated” prophetic utterances rather than explanatory epistles. In this brief study, each verse will be discussed followed by exposing the faulty reasonings and logic behind this perspective of “inspiration” as used in this doctrine.

(1) 2 Tim 3:16.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Tim 3:14,15 state that Timothy had read the scriptures from childhood. Thus, 2 Tim 3:16 can only be speaking of the OT graphe (scriptures) as being “God -breathed”, not to these letters he and the other apostles were writing to the churches..

2 Timothy: 3:14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Timothy could NOT have had the epistles, the Acts, nor likely all gospel accounts (if any) to read as a child. Paul was still writing epistles (such as this one to Timothy). Thus “all scripture” could not have been intended to include the NT writings though obviously Jesus words and instructions are “GOD BREATHED”. (Rom 10:6-8; Heb 1:1-4)

(2) 1 Peter: 1:10-12.

Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

In 1 Pet 1:10-12 Paul refers to the same OT prophecies as scripture, not to the epistles which he himself was still writing. Proponents and advocates of ‘verbal, plenary inspiration’ tend to read the ‘us’ and ‘you’ in vs 12 as a 21st century people of a church age upon whom they believe prophecies are being or will be fulfilled. In equating and classing the epistles as prophetic writings they include the apostles among the prophets of verse 10 and tend to read the words as if they are written to whatever end time generation happens to read them. But the time of the sufferings of Christ and the glory to follow refers to the time and events of the first century and subsequent generations; not to a single future generation following in a time period distant to them. Peter mentioned this earlier in his speech in Acts 3 saying in vs 24 that all the prophets from Samuel onwards had spoken of these (first century) days.

(3) 2 Peter 1:20,21

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 PET 1:20,21 by itself can appear to say that all scripture is prophetic, by the words “no prophecy of scripture” if the individual has a previous disposition and indoctrination to refer to the epistles as “scriptures”. But 2 Peter 1:16-19 is referring primarily and specifically to the prophecy of deut 18:16-18 as being fulfilled by the voice from heaven at Jesus baptism and made more sure ( 2 Pet 1:19) when they themselves (3 of them including Peter) heard the voice from heaven again at his transfiguration. Thus again, 2 Peter 1 is referring specifically to prophecies in the OT writings.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.19. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Deuteronomy: 18.15. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16. According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Mark: 9.2. And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 7. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

2 Peter 1:16-21’s reference to deut 18:15-19 [esp vs 19] is contextual support and precedence that the heavens and earth of 2 Peter 3:7,10,12 were referring to mosaic covt principles [mountains], foundations, elements and ways and to the revealing of new covt elements & statutes in vs 13.

(4) 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Perhaps most importantly; In 2 peter 3:16, Peters intent is NOT to equate the epistles as “scripture” and thus prophetic in the same way that OT prophecies were prophetic. His intent is to equate the manner in which some untaught and unstable men twisted Pauls letters, especially concerning the judgement about to occur, like they did also the OT scriptures.

2 Peter: 3.16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also [in the same manner they also wrest] the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

This doctrine and perspective of equating the epistles as “scripture” (graphe) also authorizes them to be taken out of the literary genre of epistle to first century audiences and into the realm of ” GOD BREATHED” “scripture” and thus further falsly imposing and declaring a futurist prophetic intent rather than a first century explanatory message. In 2 cor 1:24 Paul himself declares his letter to not be instruments of lordship but of helps. And in 2 cor 3:5,6 he affirms that they are not the source of doctrine or life, but explainers and helpers of Christ. And he expresses that their service is to the spirit (intent) of the new covt, not to the literal “letter” written as if in stone. (2 Cor 3:2,3)

Section 2; the faulty reasoning behind the faulty foundation;

The order of logic to the statement of the doctrine of “verbal, plenary inspiration” is as follows.

First using 2 peter 3:16 they claim that Peter is equating Pauls epistles on par with the “other” or “rest of” the scriptures.

The word “scriptures” can simply mean sacred writings or it can specifically refer to the sacred writings of the OT. The word ‘other’, or ‘remainder, or rest of’, can convey distinction from equality as much or as often as similitude. In context, Peters intent is NOT to equate and establish the epistles as new “sacred writings” but to equate the tendency of these untaught, insecure and likely unredeemed men’s manner of twisting and misinterpreting the OT writings with their mishandling of Pauls letters.

Then, after equating the epistles with the OT writings, they, using 2 Tim 3:16 apply the proclamation of God Breathed “SCRIPTURE” or writings to the epistles. But its obvious that Paul can’t and doesn’t have his epistles or even gospels in mind because he says that Timothy had read the sacred scripture which were able to make him wize about and unto salvation from a child. (see vs 14 and 15). And Timothy would have only had the OT writings and the oral stories of Jesus as a child. Paul was obviously NOT referring to his epistles which he had just sent to Timothy as a Inspired Scripture which Timothy would have read from childhood; would he?

BUT, then the advocates of this perspective of calling the epistles GOD BREATHED scriptures, and appealing to 1 Peter 1:10-12 & 2 Peter 1:20,21 as their authority, declare that the forward looking statements and explanations of the apostles were not actually written for their first century readers but to “US”, a people some 2000 years into the future for some (mistaken) “end time” audience.

In trying to source the root differences between the futurist understanding and hermeneutic and the preterist, I find this doctrine of ‘verbal, pleanary inspiration” with inspiration meaning”God Breathed” as explained of the prophets in 1 Pet 1:10-12 is one such difference. I find the support and claimed scriptural foundation for these perspectives and statements of verbal, plenary “INSPIRATION” (God breathed) to be faulty.

……………………………………………..

We (I) do affirm that the Gospels, Epistles, Acts & Revelation were providentially and divinely appointed to be written and recorded and also providentially preserved for even our observation and agreement.

We (I) further agree that the apostles and writers were “illumined” for their tasks of affirming the gospel, its application and effects to especially their first century audience.

But the epistles were not intended to be the source of that Gospel (2 cor 3:3-6) nor were the forward looking statements intended to be distantly prophetic to a future people but were rather fully cognated (understood) encouragements, explanations and guidance.

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Turbo sale draft.

This is a personal Ad. My apologies to those following the blog in which this is posted.

FOR SALE;

2) 1982 Honda CX500 Turbos.

BIKE #1;  serial# 1243;

Original paint; 22,600 miles;  The stator reportedly needed replaced when parked in @2000. But both recent static tests on the stator show a good stator.  The rectifier side also checks out ok but I was unable to check the dynaminc (running) stator output or the regulator side of the rectifier/regulator.  It’s possible that the previous owner had a bad battery and misdiagnosed a failed stator.  The engine speed sensor connector plug on the right side of the bike had been disconnected as if he had been trying to obtain and diagnose stator readings from there. It has been in dry storage waiting for time and space for a stator replacement (possibly unneccesary) since that time.

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It has the original key and set of locks.  I was able to power up the computer and ignition system. The fuel pump cycled for its 3 seconds and stopped as expected.  I cranked it over and because I had injected some wd-40 into the combustion chambers some time ago, it gave a couple huffs.  I kept cranking about 10 seconds till the oil pressure light went out.   The fuel supply line developed vacuum. Not bad for sitting 15 years.

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The bike has a broken right front turn signal lense. It is missing the right side cover and the left cable cover of the handlebar cover group.   The left front fairing vent was broken where it contacted the radiator but a repair piece is included. Otherwise, the bike is complete.

It would need the brakes & forks rebuilt and likely some fuel system cleaning.

There is light chips, scrapes and spider cracks on both sides of the fairing with the right side being a little worse than the left side.  The corner at the top of the right vent is damaged/worn about 1 inch x 1/2 inch.  The scrapes on the left side are mostly at the front outside edge of the inlet vent. The bike could be ridden with the fairing as is or the buyer could elect minor fairing repairs and repaint. Just touching up or replacing the orange decal would improve the appearance substantially.  It wasn’t laid over at speed, but rather those typical parking lot or starting off blunders.   The previous owner in fact mentioned being too short-legged to always keep the bike steady and upright at stops.

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The windscreen shown in some of the pictures was a broken aftermarket bubble type screen.  A faded but usable windscreen is included.

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The fuel tank has some rust inside, more-so at the top/crown just inside the cap than at the sides.  From what I see, it should clean up through one of the chemical or electro-chemical processes.

The wheels are dirty but began cleaning up with the little work I put into them.  They would clean up to a 8 – 9 or better and look fine.

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The mirrors and boots are in good shape as is the dash/instrument cluster.  The front forks look good and clean. 

The seat is like new !!

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The front rotors are smooth and unworn while the rear rotor has very slight groove/wear towards the middle of both sides. 

The rear cowl and left side cover are intact and unbroken.  The top of the rear cowl has some sun discoloration but it is only noticable from close up. Both fenders are in good shape.  Both side cover locks are there and functional.  The mufflers and their covers are in good shape but they and the battery box could use some paint. The paint on the rest of the frame is good.

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The headlights, tailight, and rear turn signal lenses are all in good physical shape.

The bike was owned by an engineer or machinist of some sort who had a couple vintage motorcycles and took good care of them, so I expect the engine to be in good condition other than possibly needing a stator.

It has a good title.

If the stator turns out to be ok I don’t believe it would take alot to get the bike running and on the road.

BIKE # 2;  serial #1433;

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The story is that the bike was running after being repaired (fairing) and repainted (blue with gold metalflake) in @1996.  Soon afterwards the owners son took it out for a spin and promptly laid it over at slow speed.   it has been sitting on a back porch or a storage unit most of the time since then (’96-’98). 

The bike shows @29,500 miles.  It has a broken right front turn signal lense and is missing the ignition switch/key and the right side cable cover of the handlebar cover group. It is otherwise complete.

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The fairing has scrapes and breaks in mostly the right side of the fairing.  The left side scratches are mosly in the blue paint and I can’t see any evidence of previous repair work on the left side.   The right side of the fairing has some damage at the top corner of the inlet vent about 2 inches x 1 inch with crack extending another 2 inches from there.  That area had been previously repaired and is repairable again.  The two front vents are unbroken and the two side metal screens, though missing in the pictures are included.

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There are several minor imperfections with this bike which are repairable or useable as is. Among them are; a crack at the left edge of the air filter cover, a 1/2 crack in the middle of the clear plastic covering the gauges and the black windscreen has about 2 inches of the right side/return missing.

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The keyway was removed but the ignition is turnable with a screwdriver.  I was able to power up the ignition and computer.  I drained and replaced the oil, changed the filter and added a little transmission fluid to help clean and recondition the seals and rings. After cleaning the starter the engine spun over VERY well and developed oil pressure.  It has spark but the fuel system will need cleaning.

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The right side cover has 2 small (1 inch) repaired cracks and the one attatchment knob is broken off, but it is in the document box.  The left side cover is in good shape.

The original tool kit is in the tool compartment along with the remains of the cloth bag.  Its cool to see “HONDA” on the wrenches rather than just the “H” logo.

The frame is rusty in areas and at edges especially in the area of the battery box and would be best served by being sandblasted and powdercoated or painted.

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The brakes, forks and fuel system would need rebuilt and cleaned but all 3 rotors are smooth and unworn.

The front forks are smooth and rustless below the triple trees with a couple small areas of surface rust showing on the forks in the neck area.

The front wheel is in good shape and would clean up to about a 8-9. The rear has several specks of white and scratches showing through the gold and would clean up to about a 6 and might be able to be touched up to look better. It looks “gold” and ok from a distance as is.

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The tank is rusty inside but not rusted through.  It would need the same chemical or electrochemical  treatment as the first tank.   The right side edge or flange of the tank was slightly indented in the first accident but it is not noticable when the tank is installed on the bike.   Both tank to seat support tangs are missing.

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The seat is recovered with an industrial/automotive vinyl of good quality and is in good functional shape. Both mounting tabs to the frame are in good shape.

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The left side muffler shield and muffler are “dinged” slightly by the centerstand.  There is also repairable scrapes on the right side header cover/heat shield and the right side muffler cover. The mufflers themselves appear to be in good condition.

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A good used fender/apron from a CX650 T or E is  included to replace the damaged/cut one on the bike.  It fits and is the same except for the curvature of the fender and shape of the reflector.  

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This bike would be best served with a frame up renovation, being either repainted to original color or keeping the new & custom color approach. The blue color would look good with reflective silver and gold decals/striping in the original pattern.

I have little doubt that the engine would be in working condition, but the internal condition of things is unknown and not guaranteed.  The stator checks out ok using the two common tests and the 3 prong connector shows no sign of previous heating. 

This motorcycle also has a valid title.

The tires on both bikes (especially the first turbo) were new not long before they were parked.  They show no noticable cracks, but should likely be replaced for safety concerns.

I estimate that it would take between $500 and $1000 to make each bike roadworthy not counting labor.  This would include tires, battery, brake & fork parts, wheel bearings, seals, fluids, etc; and frame painting or stator/triple bypass if needed.

Part of the value of these bikes  is in the subjective, therapeautic satisfaction and hobby of restoring, owning and riding such a unique motorcycle and then sharing that restoration and ownership with others.

The asking price is $3750 for the pair.  Individually, the prices are $2250 for the white painted bike and $1500 for the blue repainted bike. (The complete engine likely has greater value). Because of their relative completeness, I’d hope they would go to a party interested in renovation or restoration rather than a thrill ride or parting them out.

Initial contact, additional questions and reply will be by the cxforum bulletin board, by email (graybill888@gmail.com); by PM through the cx forum; or through the reply feature to the wordpress article (must be registered with wordpress). I’ll reply and respond to additional questions via internet first and then, if neccessary, by phone to seriously interested parties to make pickup or visual inspection arrangemets or answer more questions.

The bikes are located in central Pennsylvania about 50 miles north of Harrisburg, or 50 miles south of Williamsport,  and 10 miles west of Selinsgrove.  They are about 30 miles from the cx500 forum “amish rally” gathering site held the second weekend of August each year.

They will also be for sale locally and might make it to craigslist.

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Two Israels, one children of God.

This is a simple introductory statement for discussion:

The ‘church’ is the continuation and fulfillment of the everlasting gospel and covenant of creator made in Gen 3:15.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with the fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy SEED shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

This covenant made with Abraham in Gen 12 was the continuation of, and addendum to, the promise made to Eve in Gen 3:15. I believe this is the same covenant made with Noah in Gen 6:18 & Gen 9:9-17.

There are 2 Israels;

One is of the spiritually similar “SEED” as the individual Jacob re-named Israel, whos name meant son or prince of God. This ‘seed’ of Israel in such places as Jer 31:31ff is the same idea as the ‘seed’ of Abraham as referring to a spiritual Genos (kind) of similar faith that Abraham had in the proto-evangeleon (Gen 3:15). John 1:11-13; In Jer 31, the seed of Israel (in association with a prophecy about a new dissimilar covt) remains forever. This isn’t talking of a physical descendancy but of a genos (seed) of those of faith in Gods GOOD intervention into humanity. Isaiah 61 talks of the seed of God as believers in Christ; Ez 13; talks of the sons/daughters of faith individually delivering themselves of ‘that city’. And perhaps most noticably; Hosea 11, the whole chapter. This chapter in, like Jeremiah 31 associates Ephraim as the latter child of Grace through faith to those of all nations with “Israel”. This ‘spiritual’ Israel is the assembly of “children of God” of all ages through faith in his visitation, throughout all generations forever and ever…

See also Gal 4:21ff where Paul explains the point where the blessing to the second son Jacob (Ephraim) would surpass but be oppressed by the way of the law (the first son).

The other “Israel” is the Israel of the national covenant delivered as a pattern, anti-type and shadow of the covenant of mercy & truth.  This national Israel began when Moses delivered the covenant recorded in the book of deuteronomy, on the first of the 11th (of 13) months, 40 yrs after crossing the red sea. Deut 27:9; says ‘this day’ thou are become the people of God…hithertofor they were not a people, but now they were the people of God… Deut 5:3 says that the national covenant is different from the covenant of Mercy that He had made with their Fathers..(Abe, Isaac, Jacob).

In the development of this national covenant as prophecied in the book of deuteronomy, Deut 28-32 talks of the time from the Babylonian captivity through their return m captivity (Deut 30:1-4) and their hearing and response to the covenant of mercy and change of heart… (mid Deut 30:6-19; rom 10:6-8) and then Deut 32 prophecied of the end and ‘latter end’ of the covenant and desolation in Deut 32 as administered through the Romans. This national Israel also contained people of faith in the covenant of Mercy and those who obeyed his new commands.

I think these two entities are distinguished insuch places as Daniels prayer and Gods response in Dan. chapter 9 when he (Daniel) talks of those to whom God gives mercy everlasting, (everlasting covt) as ‘thy people’ and those of the national covt who God in return calls ‘thy people’ when talking of the 70 yr time frame of the people whom were taken by the hand and led out of Egypt and given the temporary covt through Moses as described in Jer 31:27-33.

National Israel and the way of the law then WAS a parenthesis within the development of the children (sons/daughters) of God as spiritual children of faith in the Creators promise from Eden to enter into and redeem humanity, being now and forever in Christ and Goodness.

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What doctrine is John referring to in 2 John 10 ?

In Johns letter to a ‘chosen lady’, he writes these words;

1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2 For the truth’s sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

*10* If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

*11* For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

What doctrine was John referring to in this instruction and what were the circumstances to cause him to make such statements.

The 3 verses before vs 10 give us some information. 

*7* For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

*8* Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

*9* Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Here we see that those confessing not that Jesus IS come in the flesh and who abide not in the doctrine of Christ is what he refers to.

Vs 2-4 helps clarify that the GOOD truths which Jesus, as God, delivered and worked during his incarnation are what is meant by Christ (truth) dwelling in you.

To see what John means by ‘is come in the flesh’  and to help answer the question, we look at the context and information of his prior letter.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, (John 6:28,29) and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Here the context defines that “in the flesh” refers to the INDWELLING and abiding of his doctrine and commandments through our eating and ingesting his words and intent by recieving them by faith as taught in John 5 and 6.   2 John 2 supports that the truths which Christ delivered and became are what continues within. That understanding, along with researching that verb tenses of the words “IS COME” means a presently and continuously occurring past event, help us understand that mentally, personally and cognitivly confessing that Jesus “IS COME IN THE FLESH” refers to confessing not only the deity of his incarnation (John 6:28,29) but the perpetual, individually recieved indwelling of his truths, will, power, GOODNESS and doctrine, recieved and adhered to by faith in his person & authority, generation after generation.

Note the emphasis on the indwelling of truth(s) in the early part of 2nd John. What are the truths and ‘facts of life” which Jesus delivered in his teaching and in his coming? Compare John 1:17

This understanding that 2 john vs 10 refers to not fellowshipping with those who reject the indwelling of God by recieving the doctrine and truths (bread) of Christ and the continuation and growth of that indwelling of truths in subsequent, continuous generations of humanity; is supported in verse 7-9 in 2 John.

John would have thus been telling them to not welcome anyone who did not abide in the teachings of Christ or who did not acknowledge the continuation of his will, goodness and “body” of teachings and truths within subsequent generations.

Part of this instruction was to help them guard against being open to other claimants of messiahship of their day,  such as Simon bar Kochbah.

But the instruction seems also applicable to warn against supporting, teaching or believing those doctrines which denied the continuation of the doctrines and truths of his “body” within subsequent generations as part of Jesus incarnation and visitation. The futurist paradigm and doctrine by teaching a yet future or additional, global ‘end times’, judgemental coming of Jesus against humanity, reject and hinder the truth and growth of the continual generational indwelling as the Good, peacable Will of the Father and lifemaker, through the ages; or as stated in Jer 31 and 33; for as long as the ordinances of the earth, sun, moon and heaven exist. (Till the cows come home.) They, the futurist “christian”, effectively look for a different (another) Jesus thus rejecting and denying the Messiah who came.

If this second meaning and application of denying that Jesus is come (and continues coming, indwelling tge flesh with truths) can be further supported, then to what extent should believers, followers and livers of God/Christ disassociate from futurist eschatological groups and those who bear those doctrines….I.E. not only the dispensational doctrines but other ‘end times’ gloom/doom, future global and human judgement (punishment) models within “christendom”?

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